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Thread: Resistance, coils and heat - please help me understand!

  1. #1
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    Resistance, coils and heat - please help me understand!

    Right, so I was reading Rebel's link about how higher temp Vaping releases more toxins due to heating the PG and VG more, and the researcher guy said something along the lines of "we saw less toxins coming from the dual coil atty, we think it's because the same voltage is delivered to the coil head but it's split between two coils, which means the two coils don't get as hot as a single coil would".

    Is this right? I had always thought that a lower overall resistance (like you get with having two coils, or even a single sub-ohm build) was desirable to some vapers because the lower resistance coil/s heated up more quickly than a higher ohm coil and therefore made more vapour. But that sort of seems like the opposite of what he's saying..

    Can someone please break it down for me?
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  2. #2
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    "resistance" is the "resistance to electron flow" through the wire.

    Lower resistance means the electricity flows a lot easier ~ which means a lot more electricity and time is required to heat the coil up ~ which in some circumstances will over stress the batteries.

    Sub Ohm vaping with low resistance is not about quick heat build up.... it's more about having a larger wire surface area exposed to the juice which in turn creates more vapour.

    Fatter wire has less resistance because the electrons flow through real easy... imagine a skinny thin wire with high resistance getting hit with high power ~ it will immediately pop (melt because of the heat) like a fuse wire and break the flow of electricity.
    Last edited by singlefished; 29-07-16 at 10:53 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Also taking a five second draw every thirty seconds for ten minutes would have me screaming.

    I consider the report unreliable, unrealistic and funded through tobacco taxes makes it dubious all on its own.

    Who takes a 5 second draws every thirty seconds and does it for ten minutes?

    It prompted me to check the draw timer on my machine I do have parallel coils in at the moment koopor primus at 68w tfv4 mini sextuple thingy installed my best draw lasts 3 seconds (probably my poxy lungs) and I sure dont do it every 30 seconds over a ten minute period.

    They did not include temperature control nor did they include the same results using a cigarette.

    Flawed research. Dont freak out they had no idea what they were doing basically (just my opinion)

    Good answer on the resistance singlefished.
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  4. #4
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    Oh no, I'm not freaking out. I just always thought lower resistance coils heated up quicker and got hotter, which was why sub-ohm vapers need massive airflow slots on subtanks, to keep the coils and vape cooler...

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    The big important info that was missing was what resistance coils they used. Parallel coils at the same reistance as a single should run at tbe same temp but could take longer to get up to temp. If the coils were diferant resistances then their paper is not worth squat
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  6. #6
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    Resistance, coils and heat?

    Resistance.... is futile!

    Coils .... are something little Goils have ( often right in the middle of their forehead )

    Heat.... When the dog starts making doe eyes at you and you have to make sure shes locked up and safe from male dogs !

    EPM V2-18490 (X2 ),GP Spheroid V2.5 and GP Piccolo V2.5 ,BBCB, Provari mini's, REO mini V2.1, 18490 REO , Jazz Carto Pipes ( fitted with GA tank and churchwarden stem Totally Evil!!! ), Meerschaum pipe ,e-holly35W,Phideas, AIOS,Taifun atties, PC Pipe mods.PC Squonker, Svapiamo squonker, GP Paps Heron combo.

    Vaping since 2007 totally smoke free since 2011


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    Quote Originally Posted by muscovyduckling View Post
    Right, so I was reading Rebel's link about how higher temp Vaping releases more toxins due to heating the PG and VG more, and the researcher guy said something along the lines of "we saw less toxins coming from the dual coil atty, we think it's because the same voltage is delivered to the coil head but it's split between two coils, which means the two coils don't get as hot as a single coil would".

    Is this right? I had always thought that a lower overall resistance (like you get with having two coils, or even a single sub-ohm build) was desirable to some vapers because the lower resistance coil/s heated up more quickly than a higher ohm coil and therefore made more vapour. But that sort of seems like the opposite of what he's saying..

    Can someone please break it down for me?
    TL;DR Yes, mostly.

    Long answer:

    Series, or parallel? The explanation is slightly different depending on which one I'm assuming parallel here.

    Say you apply 5 volts to to parallel coils of 1 ohm each.

    The ohmmeter reads 0.5 ohms so the current is 5/0.5 ohms or 10 amps.

    The thing is though, that the coils are actually 1 ohm so if you look at it on a per-coil basis, each coils still sees the same 5v, but with a resistance of 1 ohm is comes to 5/1 which is 5 amps through each coil. Each coil only sees half of the current, so it should get to roughly half the temperature if everything else is equal. That's why you really have to push dual parallel coils pretty hard.

    This changes a little bit in wattage control mode. If you set the mod to 50 watts, a single 1 ohm coil would see 50 watts.
    For dual parallel coils however, each coil will effectively generate 25 watts of heat. This is because at 50 watts on a lower resistance, each coil will generate half the heat as per the previous example but he voltage will be less.

    The confusion comes through thinking that watts are equivalent to the volts in the first example. Volts are intuitive, Watts in this case not so much.

    Think of it this way:
    Single coil: 5 volts. 1 ohm. This gives a current of 5 amps, and is 25 watts.

    Dual coils: 3.54 volts, 0.5 ohms. This gives current of just over 7 amps for the same 25 watts, but you'll notice that there's only 3.5 amps going through each coil now. The dual coils are running cooler for the same amount of heat generated. (3.5 amps x 3.54 volts = 12.5 watts minus some round errors.)

    Of course it's a bit of a moot point. The lower temperature on each coil means that vapour production is less then one coil at 25 watts, so of course the user will turn it up and push more watts through them. I guess that you could say for the *same* vapour production, both coils together will be running a little cooler, but it's vapour - how we run it is very subjective.
    Last edited by fabricator4; 29-07-16 at 11:20 PM.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

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    FM! Get your dog desexed!
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    Thanks Fab, but I just don't really get it. Ha.

    Basically, I thought that if this researcher has tested two coils - one a single 1.5ohm coil and one a dual coil at 1.5ohm on the same device at the same voltage (or the same wattage, but I think he was using volts) - then of course there would be less toxins released by the dual coil head, but that's probably because less vapour is produced, not because the temp of each coil is lower.

    Yes/no?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by muscovyduckling View Post
    Thanks Fab, but I just don't really get it. Ha.

    Basically, I thought that if this researcher has tested two coils - one a single 1.5ohm coil and one a dual coil at 1.5ohm on the same device at the same voltage (or the same wattage, but I think he was using volts) - then of course there would be less toxins released by the dual coil head, but that's probably because less vapour is produced, not because the temp of each coil is lower.

    Yes/no?
    Yes, absolutely, especially if that's what he really did. It kind of misses the point that most people (well many anyway) are going to turn the dual coil up to produce a thicker vapour and my just wind up producing the same amount of bad chemicals. I have to say that I don't do it that way now, though I did at first.
    rodbam and Wombats1 like this.
    Chris: Tobacco free since 17:00 15th March 2013.

 

 
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