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Thread: OzEjuice.com

  1. #1
    DAD
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    OzEjuice.com

    I have decided to post this here, in general discussion and in light of the derailed Christmas train, the evil twin brother and mystery websites popping up on social media and then seeing the pitch fork brigade with flamed tongues roll out ready to burn and stone the witches and demons of evil at the stake it can be a fine line people walk here.

    So before people also dig up I have a small site, I have decided to place a pending post. Back middle late last year I was approached to help build a national company and sales force for a ecig company (I work in sales and have set up several national gigs in the past) and at that point I decided this e ciggy thing was not for me, I had given up smoking long ago and I thought they were just some gimmicky thing anyway.

    But I did pay some dues and decided to look into some of the claims being made by these people, and the more I dug around the more I liked what I saw, and even more I enjoyed the products and the people.

    The company I wont name, nor the sister company but to say they are very large and one is new Zealand based, and it all stemmed from or had connections to the guy from another global company that was ousted from here and sent back home on a jet plane.

    And at this point I believe that original approach is still floating on the table, as I know the main guy very well for many years, but it would also seem he has hit a brick wall with negotiations and structure etc, and I really have no clue as to whether this venture will take of or not.

    That said with the research taken I had enough interest to start my own little gig, and to put that into perspective I took about four weeks off before even jumping into making a final decision in regards if I even wanted to become involved, then one day on the job doing some quotes for a guy who was just gaging and chain smoking every 2 seconds and hearing his bull poo story that he had caught the sniffles, combined with my dad dying from smoking (and grog) it made sense to just even try and help out. So I took the plunge to get started.

    And that all happened before this place, and during my research I was lucky enough to find and join here, and for me I have loved it.

    But what I read is a little disturbing in the pitchfork department in that people must be shonky if they do not list here or that there must be something wrong, and I suppose In a way I can understand it but there are always differing view points.

    First I have no time for people who wish to be dishonest, people like I do not sell stuff then link to gear or my evil twin brother crap, that stuff is out, but If I am right there are also many who choose not to list here as I have done.

    My decision to not list here were several, they were that I did not want to be another 2 minute slap up vendor (we have a fully registered company), and in my travels I have a collection of around 50 odd vendors in aus and I needed to find a point in difference and running with the pack did not seem to suit my direction, I do not have face palm, twatter or any social media (and that includes forum gigs), as I have chosen to work more face to face on the ground with people (something I have been doing for many years) and lastly I have studied the vendors here and to be honest they are all doing a great job for the best part, I did not need come here and add to the mix.

    I have since been fortunate to speak with and meet a few people here and it may be down the track I do decide to list up as a vendor and that could be sooner rather than later or not at all, but for now I just enjoy being part of the community and learning but also giving back where I can, and this post does nothing more than to explain why some people choose not to list here as a vendor and also future proofs me should somebody find my site down the line and want to lynch mob me.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by DAD; 23-02-14 at 03:55 PM.
    GirlyPantz, JWH, gtadmin and 14 others like this.

  2. #2
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    Hi Dad .... I will take a bit of time to explain my thoughts on the "Pitchfork Brigade "
    No vendor , no matter what they stock , as long as it is reasonably priced and the service is good , need EVER need fear the pitchforks on AVF .
    But what we DO see a lot of lately is people rebranding OEM packages from China , that WE KNOW they are sourcing for very little and putting huge markups on them .
    Case in point a large multinational who came here selling a single ego battery , charger , and single CE4 Clearomiser for around the $70 mark +postage.
    Compare this to the vendors here who will do at least DOUBLE that package for less investment .... The multinational is taking the piss !
    We all know what things cost these days , we all know the availability of things .... We also all know that a B&M investment needs profit to meet overheads ... but any company selling minimum quality gear, claiming it to be "special" , making claims as to X amount of packs of cigarettes, locking people into purchasing expensive cartridges, misrepresenting common knowledge and preying on the uninformed masses WILL NOT get a Standing Ovation and a Welcome from a lot of our members .

    Vaping is new to a lot of people , but it is also NOT new to a lot of us , and we have all seen people being taken advantage of , or in some cases BEEN the person being taken advantage of .... Evil only prospers when good men do nothing cross out evil in some cases and replace with rampant profiteering perhaps?

    AVF is not a collection of people looking for a messiah to provide , but are more inclined to research , help each other out , and support those vendors who DO give a crap and don't make promises their product will not live up to .... a lot of the vendors you see on these forums came from here, they grew here, and in the journey to becoming vendors , helped out and participated here along the way ... it is natural to protect the interests of those who serve the community well .

    In the last twelve months , the amount of FLY-by-NIGHTER vendors, and sheer bullshit artists realising the profit potential of vaping has gone feral ... you have people all over facebook , and other social media , ripping people off, selling cheap liquid with nicotine illegally for inflated prices , even some of the larger companies are diddling the books . tell me HOW you can get e-liquid from the UK delivered to your door in 2 days ??? You cant , you just physically cant And yet this is the thing they use to circumvent local laws . Same as NZ suppliers who have packages arrive by Auspost in Auspost envelopes ... its dodgy as ... why should we sacrifice quality vendors who look after the community in favour of these parasites?

    Then you have companies that think they are gods gift to vaping , and want it all ... sure they will give you pretty boxes and little notes , But you ARE PAYING for all that , its not done out of the goodness of their hearts ?

    The very most a 30ml sample of e-liquid costs in component ingredients at wholesale prices is a buck or two tops ... everything after that is pure unadulterated profit .... would some people object to paying 1000-2000-3000% mark-up? some would , and some don't , and that's their decision ... but to claim Artisan status etc is crap ... they are cordial mixers ....some make a nicer cordial than others is all
    Artisan is someone who creates something by hand , there ARE a few vendors who do their own steeping and flavour extractions , THEY are artisans... not the cordial mixers.

    You also get distributors .. the middleman , the ultimate leech , who adds very little value , but infers its ALLLLL them , in some cases we have had them GeoBlock Aussies so you cant access cheaper overseas sites for the same deal .....

    Can you see why the pitchforks exist ?

    There are numerous local guys here who braved the pitchforks , took it onboard , and have become great vendors ... the ones who cry the most are the ones who have the most to lose when the pitchforks come out ... "Coises...Foiled again !!! My evil plan to make a killing has been seen thru"

    A good HONEST reliable vendor , will find a place in the hearts of the people here, a pretentious , aggressive, victim playing profit merchant will not

    Unfortunately there is a lot of money in vaping now , and AVF has an attractive 6,000 members and a huge presence in local search engines and flow thru traffic ( people who browse without signing up ) ... that's a very good client base ... the problem is a lot of vendors do not understand that in the main we are intelligent enough to shop where WE want to shop and resent being told where to do it by an outside force with vested interest

    * Addendum ......This is not to say I condone all the actions of the Pitchfork Brigade , but I DO understand a lot of where it comes from
    Last edited by Fatman; 05-02-14 at 01:20 PM.
    EPM V2-18490 (X2 ),GP Spheroid V2.5 and GP Piccolo V2.5 ,BBCB, Provari mini's, REO mini V2.1, 18490 REO , Jazz Carto Pipes ( fitted with GA tank and churchwarden stem Totally Evil!!! ), Meerschaum pipe ,e-holly35W,Phideas, AIOS,Taifun atties, PC Pipe mods.PC Squonker, Svapiamo squonker, GP Paps Heron combo.

    Vaping since 2007 totally smoke free since 2011


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  3. #3
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    I think the other reason the pitch forks come out is because we get some people in here that pose as or are in fact newbies and they ask all sorts of shall we say odd questions like.. What are the most popular devices people buy.. like give me the top 5? where can I buy cheap stuff in bulk? Who is the best supplier to use and where can I buy PG in bulk. Then a couple of weeks later they pop up going "Ta Da!!!!! I am a vendor!!!" or claim to be "Australia's preferred e-cig company" on opening day.

    This practice has been seen so frequently that even subtle questions start raising eyebrows because the questioners all seem to follow the same patterns of behaviour. They don't contribute to the forum and their only intent is to short-cut the need to do their own market research.

    So I don't think you have anything to worry about in that department
    Last edited by GirlyPantz; 05-02-14 at 01:28 PM.
    gtadmin, Crisscross, CMB and 6 others like this.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by GirlyPantz View Post
    I think the other reason the pitch forks come out is because we get some people in here that pose as or are in fact newbies and they ask all sorts of shall we say odd questions like.. What are the most popular devices people buy.. like give me the top 5? where can I buy cheap stuff in bulk? Who is the best supplier to use and where can I buy PG in bulk. Then a couple of weeks later they pop up going "Ta Da!!!!! I am a vendor!!!" or claim to be "Australia's preferred e-cig company" on opening day.

    This practice has been seen so frequently that even subtle questions start raising eyebrows because the questioners all seem to follow the same patterns of behaviour. They don't contribute to the forum and their only intent is to short-cut the need to do their own market research.

    So I don't think you have anything to worry about in that department
    GirlyPantz .... you complete me
    EPM V2-18490 (X2 ),GP Spheroid V2.5 and GP Piccolo V2.5 ,BBCB, Provari mini's, REO mini V2.1, 18490 REO , Jazz Carto Pipes ( fitted with GA tank and churchwarden stem Totally Evil!!! ), Meerschaum pipe ,e-holly35W,Phideas, AIOS,Taifun atties, PC Pipe mods.PC Squonker, Svapiamo squonker, GP Paps Heron combo.

    Vaping since 2007 totally smoke free since 2011


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  5. #5
    CMB
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    Not to mention vendors who think they are not really vendors and think the forum rules don't apply to them...

    In short, if you do it properly, be honest, don't rip people off and don't base your whole business model around trying to gain customers from AVF then you will be fine. I think it is great that you didn't decide to list on here, to me that shows that you have put a bit more thought into your marketing rather than just picking the low hanging fruit.

  6. #6
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    What they said.

    To me, I think a simple "being open and honest" with this audience should cover it. Your post says that you are trying to do just that.

    Good luck with your venture, should you choose to follow it through.

    Dave
    Sent by DaveJ

    Sorry, I don't have a witty signature.

  7. #7
    DAD
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    Thanks for the replies guys and I am fully in agreeable with and support the pitchfork brigade, For me it has been the exact opposite, my first sale saw the customer give me false cc details and phone numbers and in short walking away with my product and no $, so not a good start, next I have a free section that clearly stated choose one item with your order (if you wish) but no Mr opportunity came along and pretty wiped out the entire section in one go, apparently could not read, so all of that promotional stock went west and will need to be replaced (I have since re written in very plain English for those who cant read a new process should it happen again). In life regardless of business type or which side of the fence you fall, there will always be sum num nut / dip sheite ready to push the boundaries.

    For the best part we all try to avoid them but occasionally we step in some crap but staying focused on the end game is for me better than worrying about these people and why or what they do these things for, as most of them are not going to change or probably even understand their actions are wrong.

  8. #8
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    AVF is a small community, and there are a lot of similarities with this online community and small towns and communities in this country. Anyone who has ever lived in a small town knows all about the rip off merchants who think they can start up a local business and people will support it simply because it is a local business, but they soon find out that people have seen it all before. I call it the "Instant Karma" syndrome, (thanks Mr Lennon), and its now so common online and in RL that it always amazes me when people get upset when they get called out for trying to use it.

    For example, we have the local COC advertising for people to shop locally and support local business, with all the emotive and parochial arguments to try and make people feel guilty if they choose not to. However, the business people themselves, (not all but quite a few), think that this is a license for them to charge like wounded bulls, lie about freight charges, treat customers like shite, and rip people off in both product cost and customer service. They give nothing back to the community, even to the point of directly hiring 457 visa holders, or backpackers, rather than local people, because they can rip them off in paying crap wages, and expecting them to work under crap conditions. Then they cry victim when the get found out, called out, and go broke. They don't understand that people that live here aren't stupid, and we've seen it all before, we know how much products cost, we know how much freight costs, and we wont accept crap customer service just because we live in a small town.

    The businesses that do well in my town are the ones that provide a quality product, great customer service, support the community in things such as sporting sponsorship, donating to charities that help out the local community, and are in business to make a living, not a killing.

    The same happens in the AVF online community, we have some wonderful vendors that give back to the community, (just have a look at the vendors that responded to the request for generosity PIF event recently), not to mention great customer service, and products that are not overpriced and are good quality. These are the vendors that have taken the time to build their reputation, rather than expecting to have "instant karma" just because they sell vape gear/are vapers or have been members of the forum. They also don't expect people to buy from them just because they are members of AVF. These are businesses they are not going to kill the pig as far as getting rich quick, but they are businesses that will be here for the long haul, and the business owners will make a decent living.
    All opinions expressed by me, are my own, I do not represent, or speak for, anyone but myself.






    STOPPED SMOKING 11/08/13 STARTED VAPING 11/08/13

  9. #9
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    DAD - A couple of questions, if I may? Are you a vaper yourself? You said in your OP that you gave up smoking years ago, so I'm curious. I have met a few people who gave up smoking years ago but choose to vape.

    Secondly, the guy who ripped you off.. I don't understand how you wouldn't have picked it up that he was getting a bunch of freebies he shouldn't have
    Mr opportunity came along and pretty wiped out the entire section in one go
    when you were packing the order?

    My thought is and always will be that if you plan to profit from this community, you'd best be up front from the start. It's hard to trust people who are dishonest and have an agenda they don't declare. I'd challenge anyone to find a single vendor with reasonable prices who got the pitchfork treatment if they were open about their agenda from the getgo. Nobody likes being treated like an idiot or feeling manipulated.

  10. #10
    DAD
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsgruffy View Post
    DAD - A couple of questions, if I may? Are you a vaper yourself? You said in your OP that you gave up smoking years ago, so I'm curious. I have met a few people who gave up smoking years ago but choose to vape. .
    mrsgruffy happy to answer your questions, first yes I do vape, I vape 0% nic, I enjoy the flavors and the sensation of vaping and as an ex smoker I think there is always a fine line between quitting and starting up again, the 0% nic fills that gap (not that I was looking for a cigarette), and I swap out flavors, and for me testing the flavors, and equipment is important in that it gives me an understanding and perspective of the product.

    Secondly, the guy who ripped you off.. I don't understand how you wouldn't have picked it up that he was getting a bunch of freebies he shouldn't have when you were packing the order?
    Yes you are correct, I picked it up straight away, I also wrote to the person explaining that the option was for one product, how ever and being in sales for many years and solving many customer problems, I do not create arguments and rather than cause problems I sent all but one of the freebies which was a double up. Further to that I do not blame anyone other than myself when things go wrong, so I looked at what I could do to further improve and also fix any future problems and with that I have added a very clear wording that explains to those people who can not or choose not to read my future policy in regards the issue if it were to happen again.

    My thought is and always will be that if you plan to profit from this community, you'd best be up front from the start. It's hard to trust people who are dishonest and have an agenda they don't declare. I'd challenge anyone to find a single vendor with reasonable prices who got the pitchfork treatment if they were open about their agenda from the getgo. Nobody likes being treated like an idiot or feeling manipulated
    I think everybody agrees with that.

 

 
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